tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8811866763970314328.post273071661763498100..comments2024-02-19T07:51:46.118-05:00Comments on Throw Grammar from the Train: It's hard for I -- what about you?Janhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03173219179480606941noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8811866763970314328.post-18181903698890664042011-12-23T11:11:29.957-05:002011-12-23T11:11:29.957-05:00No, Ø, no comments have been deleted. What you see...No, Ø, no comments have been deleted. What you see is what you get. (I think blogspot marks all deletes.) <br />And yes, moderating time is a drag. I suppose I should stop and see what happens? But I hardly deserve more comments at the current rate of posting! (Thanks.)Janhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01579983806826643000noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8811866763970314328.post-12345814485422267332011-12-23T11:11:29.638-05:002011-12-23T11:11:29.638-05:00No, Ø, no comments have been deleted. What you see...No, Ø, no comments have been deleted. What you see is what you get. (I think blogspot marks all deletes.) <br />And yes, moderating time is a drag. I suppose I should stop and see what happens? But I hardly deserve more comments at the current rate of posting! (Thanks.)Janhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01579983806826643000noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8811866763970314328.post-80868591929660330392011-12-22T18:40:32.013-05:002011-12-22T18:40:32.013-05:00There wasn't a comment, since deleted, mention...There wasn't a comment, since deleted, mentioning Austen? (You understand, I'm not especially looking for more conflict, just making conversation. Your blog deserve more and better comments. At the moment I can give you more but not better.) <br /><br />That reminds me to ask, presumptuously: Are you sure that you want to moderate comments? The resulting lag time is sort of a drag.Øhttp://voidplay.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8811866763970314328.post-52484385436562613782011-12-21T21:27:39.731-05:002011-12-21T21:27:39.731-05:00Entirely possible, Ø, but you picked it up and ran...Entirely possible, Ø, but you picked it up and ran with it!Janhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01579983806826643000noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8811866763970314328.post-48833815536810590452011-12-20T18:53:00.383-05:002011-12-20T18:53:00.383-05:00Can someone remind me how we got to Jane Austen? I...Can someone remind me how we got to Jane Austen? It's not just that Kay thought of her because she has the same first name as Jane Eyre, right?Øhttp://voidplay.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8811866763970314328.post-63358384227936011542011-12-17T09:40:38.154-05:002011-12-17T09:40:38.154-05:00Kay, the quote is "I am going to take a heroi...Kay, the quote is "I am going to take a heroine whom no-one but myself will much like." Depending on your feelings about "but" as preposition/conjunction, you might say "whom no-one but me will much like" or "whom no one but I will much like" or even "whom no-one but I myself will much like." But a typical anti-"myself" prescriptivist would not OK "myself" in Austen's sentence. ("I gave myself a heroine whom ..." would be OK, or "a heroine I myself won't like." But not Austen's use.) Please rescue Ø from under that barouche-landau!Janhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01579983806826643000noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8811866763970314328.post-46144070622046119902011-12-16T16:20:56.611-05:002011-12-16T16:20:56.611-05:00To Ø re Austen's letter about one of her chara...To Ø re Austen's letter about one of her characters, Emma or Elizabeth or whomever:<br />As you did not quote the entire sentence, it is difficult for me to judge. I did try to Google this sentence, but Google could find no other reference than yours. Therefore, I must guess Miss Austen was saying something to the effect of "I created a heroine whom no one but myself will much like."<br />I definitely would NOT prefer to say "me will"!<br />I also did not say the word "myself" should never be used. When the subject of the sentence is "I" then of course "myself" (which refers back to the subject of the sentence, who is talking about a heroine she has created or is creating) is perfectly correct. <br />Under the barouche-landau for you, Ø.<br /><br />Kay, Alberta, Canada<br />An Unfittie’s Guide to Adventurous TravelKay L. Davieshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09966266404058177742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8811866763970314328.post-81586157985149097242011-12-10T08:02:48.403-05:002011-12-10T08:02:48.403-05:00Or rather her character Emma Woodhouse.Or rather her character Emma Woodhouse.Øhttp://voidplay.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8811866763970314328.post-6011725597673296382011-12-10T07:58:07.495-05:002011-12-10T07:58:07.495-05:00Kay: Please don't throw me under the barouche-...Kay: Please don't throw me under the barouche-landau for this, but how would you feel about the phrase "A heroine whom no-one but myself will much like"? I think that many people, perhaps including you, would prefer "no-one but me". I ask because Austen is said to have written these words to someone in a letter (referring to her character Elizabeth Bennet).Øhttp://voidplay.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8811866763970314328.post-49343151300776240752011-12-09T13:13:45.113-05:002011-12-09T13:13:45.113-05:00There's a nice irony here when the very people...There's a nice irony here when the very people who peeve about losing valuable distinctions as in disinterested/uninterested or infer/imply get all peevy when a valuable distinction is gained as in gift/give.Faldonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12873736640907864834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8811866763970314328.post-60323421647246654922011-12-09T11:16:12.404-05:002011-12-09T11:16:12.404-05:00I'm not a fan of fastidiousness, but at least ...I'm not a fan of fastidiousness, but at least I can respect the time and effort that go into it. I have no patience for LAZY fastidiousness, though, because the blanket application of grossly oversimplified rules results in ugly things like "for I" and "as I."<br /><br />I ofent feel when I'm watching "reality" television that contestants/particpants are given a crash elocution course which consists of two lessons:<br /><br />1. Say, "That being said..." as often as possible. (After all, as long as it's not the first sentence out of your mouth, it's always accurate); and<br /><br />2. The correct way to pronounce "me" is "eye"<br /><br /><br />Luckily, the Honors version of this course doesn't get taught much these days. You can always tell those graduates, because they use "whom" so reflexively that they misquote owls and Dr. Seuss titles.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8811866763970314328.post-13666624046449937852011-12-09T11:14:45.309-05:002011-12-09T11:14:45.309-05:00The Bierce commentary is a good illustration of ho...The Bierce commentary is a good illustration of how incomplete grammar knowledge leads to bad usage advice. This is an old problem. Richard Grant White didn't understand prepositional verbs and so concluded that "reliable" is an impossible word. More recently, any number of commentators didn't understand sentence adverbs, and so concluded that "Hopefully,..." is an impossible construction. In Bierce's case, he didn't understand the uses of the suffix '-ed' and so concluded that "talented" is an impossible word.<br /><br />The problem with modern usage commentators is that even those who think themselves educated about English grammar are almost invariably actually educated about English grammar as it was understood c. 1890, when "traditional grammar" ossified. <br /><br />Good tests for this include asking one to define a 'determiner' or to discuss the semantic and syntactic peculiarities of phrasal verbs. If the response is a blank stare, you are dealing with someone whose knowledge is well over a century out of date. Discussing usage with such a person is like discussing integrated circuits with someone who knows nothing of 20th century physics.Richard Hershbergernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8811866763970314328.post-67312893062809975962011-12-08T23:28:05.077-05:002011-12-08T23:28:05.077-05:00There is a school of thought out there,(headed, I ...There is a school of thought out there,(headed, I have to say, by my late Aunt), which believes that it is posh to say 'I' and common to say 'me'. I tried to explain subject and object to her but she knew best.Alisonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09785329897294524869noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8811866763970314328.post-35713846935807666892011-12-08T20:12:17.592-05:002011-12-08T20:12:17.592-05:00Nobody stops to think any more. When I was learnin...Nobody stops to think any more. When I was learning English grammar, I was told to stop and think about a simpler sentence with the same usage. I've heard people say: "He gave it to Jim and I" without stopping to think: "He gave it to I" which would have revealed the mistake in an instant.<br />Of course, the worst misusage these days is "myself" as in: "He gave it to Jim and myself" which has become common usage for many people, including TV and radio broadcasters.<br />Anyone who presumes to correct Jane Austen ought to be thrown from the train along with her own grammar, and all her other relations.Kay L. Davieshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09966266404058177742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8811866763970314328.post-76925843798431937012011-12-08T19:15:05.793-05:002011-12-08T19:15:05.793-05:00It's not a "mere synonym" for "...It's not a "mere synonym" for "give", though. It means "make a present to", whereas "give" merely means "transfer".The Ridger, FCDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01538111197270563075noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8811866763970314328.post-48336682511005895612011-12-08T18:50:44.755-05:002011-12-08T18:50:44.755-05:00Poor Charlotte, no one would do this to a work wri...Poor Charlotte, no one would do this to a work written by Shakespeare.T. Roger Thomashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16304103509683960962noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8811866763970314328.post-43186746041785995082011-12-08T17:52:12.582-05:002011-12-08T17:52:12.582-05:00Prescriptivists are always whining about to gift, ...Prescriptivists are always whining about <i>to gift</i>, as if it meant no more than <i>to give</i>, but it does not; it means <i>to give as a gift</i>. I may give you bread in exchange for your money, but I am not thereby gifting you.John Cowanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11452247999156925669noreply@blogger.com